Turn-Based Gaming Never Gets Old – “Just One More Turn” (Ep.72)

Al, Sid, and Jack celebrate TurnBasedThursdayFest by examining the enduring appeal of turn-based strategy games.

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The hosts explore why “just one more turn” remains gaming’s most addictive phrase. Sid reveals over 3,000 hours in Football Manager 2020 during the pandemic. The discussion examines why turn-based games allow complexity without pressure. Players have unlimited time to think, plan, and optimize every decision. Jack identifies Worms W&D as his favourite for its accessible troop management and short play sessions. The hosts debate whether tactics games like XCOM belong in the strategy genre given their base-building mechanics. Turn-based removes excuses for poor performance because losses are entirely the player’s fault. The episode culminates in a heated debate about Total War’s classification. Jack and Al argue turn-based because campaign mechanics define progression. Sid controversially declares it RTS because battles dominate the marketing. The conversation also covers why turn-based has outlasted RTS as a viable development target, the surge in roguelike deck builders like Slay the Spire 2, and turn-based gaming history from 1970s board game adaptations through modern procedural design.

Turn-Based Strategy Games – Just One More Turn

Hosts: Al, Sid, Jack
Episode Length: ~42 minutes
Recording Context: TurnBasedThursdayFest event

Episode Summary

Episode 73 celebrates TurnBasedThursdayFest with a comprehensive examination of turn-based strategy’s enduring appeal. The “just one more turn” phrase immediately connects to Civilization for Jack, who has the most playtime in Civ 6. Sid surprises the hosts by citing Football Manager as his primary addiction with over 3,000 hours logged in FM 2020 alone during the pandemic lockdowns.

The conversation explores why turn-based games succeed by giving players unlimited time to think without pressure. This format rewards brains over reflexes and allows complex systems for economy, diplomacy, research, and logistics. Players can leave games open while working and return without losing progress. Turn-based functions as an umbrella term spanning 4X, grand strategy, tactics, and RPG subgenres rather than a distinct category.

Jack discusses Endless Legend’s borrowing of Paradox-style diplomacy mechanics where players spend resources between turns. The Menace demo receives mention as a recent tactics release. Sid identifies Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations as his favourite 4X titles for their large-scale empire management with turn-based pacing. Jack surprises everyone by naming Worms W&D as his favourite turn-based game for its accessible introduction to troop management and ability to play complete sessions in a single night.

The puzzle element emerges as fundamental to turn-based design. District placement in Civilization functions as a 70-turn planning puzzle where early decisions affect late-game viability. This puzzle aspect has fuelled the surge in roguelike deck builders, with Slay the Spire 2 recently releasing as the blueprint for the genre.

Turn-based gaming predates RTS by nearly a decade. The first turn-based computer games emerged in the 1970s from board game adaptations. RTS didn’t appear until Dune 2 in 1992. Turn-based has outlasted RTS’s golden age (1995-2007) as a viable development target. Jack argues turn-based games are cheaper to develop, more accessible to casual audiences, and provide better platforms for narrative storytelling. The accessibility of modern game engines like Unreal Engine 5 has democratized turn-based development for indie teams.

The episode culminates in a heated debate about Total War’s classification. Jack argues turn-based because campaign mechanics (resource management, economy building, troop production) define the core progression loop. He compares this to XCOM’s base building which makes it strategy despite tactical combat. Sid controversially declares Total War an RTS, focusing entirely on battles because that’s what Creative Assembly markets in trailers. The debate reveals how Total War’s dual nature creates genuine disagreement even among strategy enthusiasts. The hosts speculate about Total War Warhammer 40K potentially having 90% turn-based gameplay despite RTS ground combat.

“Just One More Turn” – What Game Do You Think Of?

The iconic “just one more turn” phrase was a meme before memes existed. Jack immediately identifies Civilization as the origin, though he jokingly claims Civ 1 required typing commands in code rather than having turns. Civ 6 holds his most playtime hours. The phrase functions like “4X” did for Master of Orion – a genre-defining term that extends beyond a single franchise.

Football Manager as a Turn-Based Game

Sid reveals over 3,000 hours in Football Manager 2020 during the pandemic. “Started playing in the morning and then suddenly it’s midnight.” The game uses a continue button rather than end turn, progressing calendar-based to the next major event. Recent years have added complexity beyond buying/selling players and tactics. Managers now handle player well-being, team morale, and hierarchy systems.

Football Manager doesn’t immediately register as turn-based strategy for most players. The classification makes sense given the button-press progression between events and the extended planning time between calendar dates.

Why Turn-Based Appeals – Time to Think, Complexity Without Pressure

Turn-based rewards brains over reflexes. Every decision can be weighed, optimized, and reconsidered. Some games offer undo actions for mistakes. RTS demands quick reflexes and constant attention. Turn-based provides unlimited thinking time per action.

The format works perfectly for office environments where players can leave games open, complete a turn when the boss isn’t around, and hide the screen again. The game waits for the player rather than continuing without involvement.

Complex systems for economy, diplomacy, research, and logistics flourish in turn-based environments. Layers of complexity that would overwhelm in real-time become manageable when players control the pace. This creates reward mastery where players learn systems, refine strategies, experiment with builds, and replay scenarios to improve.

Mechanics That Only Work in Turn-Based

Production resources work as turn counts rather than real-time timers. Technologies complete in x number of turns rather than x number of seconds. This allows granular planning. Players know exactly when gunpowder research completes and can plan invasion timing accordingly.

Conversion mechanics use influence points or loyalty resources that accumulate over turns. Real-time games could implement this with seconds-passed timers, but turn-based makes the mechanic more tangible. Players receive specific turn counts until cities or troops convert to enemy control.

The planning advantage distinguishes turn-based from RTS. Real-time demands flying by the seat of your pants with second-by-second responses to opponents or environment. Turn-based provides temporal clarity for achieving objectives through long-term strategic planning.

Turn-Based as an Umbrella – Grand Strategy, 4X, Tactics, RPG

Turn-based functions as a flexible umbrella rather than a distinct subgenre. Grand strategy can be turn-based (Civilization) or real-time (Hearts of Iron). 4X can be turn-based (Galactic Civilizations) or real-time (Stellaris). Tactics can be turn-based (XCOM) or real-time (Frozen Synapse). The format exists across mediums beyond strategy games, with a recent push to move turn-based back into the RPG sphere.

Grand strategy typically features additional resource management and economy systems that interact beyond turn-based mechanics. Players spend resources on actions between turns that don’t require turn advancement.

Endless Legend and Borrowing from Paradox

Endless Legend plays like Civilization but borrows diplomacy mechanics from Paradox games. The system offers more negotiation options than standard Civ diplomacy. Defensive pacts use identical Stellaris terminology. Players can send insults matching Stellaris’s diplomatic options. The mechanics are lifted directly from Paradox design.

These between-turn diplomatic actions don’t require turn advancement. Players spend resources while waiting on AI turns. This creates more of a grand strategy sandbox than pure turn-based gameplay despite the turn-based foundation.

Menace and the Tactics Subgenre

Jack and Al both played the Menace demo. Jack hasn’t returned to the early access release despite downloading it. Friends have picked it up through Game Pass via Hooded Horse’s partnership. The earlier review episode examined whether the demo justified purchase.

Tactics games represent an obvious turn-based subgenre alongside 4X, grand strategy, and RPG hybrids.

Sid’s Favourites – Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations

Sid runs the Space 4X subreddit and gravitates toward Endless Space and Galactic Civilizations. He also enjoys 4X-RTS hybrids like Sins of the Solar Empire despite their real-time nature. Large-scale empire management with turn-based pacing appeals most. The format encourages long-term planning through diplomacy, tech trees, and economy systems.

Sid spends more time between turns than actually hitting the next turn button. Endless Space 2 adds faction asymmetry and narrative events to the empire management formula. Stellaris has narrative events but lacks turn-based pacing. Sid hopes Amplitude makes Endless Space 3.

Endless Space features predetermined races rather than Stellaris’s emergent player-defined factions. This creates a more personal story despite non-human protagonists. The faction asymmetry and backstories add human narrative elements to the empire management.

The Roguelike and Deck Builder Surge (Slay the Spire 2)

A massive surge in deck building turn-based games and roguelike turn-based games has emerged. Deck builders represent abilities as cards where each turn functions as a puzzle. The format offers high replayability, easy learning curves, and addictive gameplay loops. Games using these mechanics receive overwhelmingly positive Steam reviews.

Slay the Spire 2 recently released as the blueprint for modern deck building roguelikes. The genre explosion on the indie side explores puzzle aspects of turn-based design with new presentations.

Jack’s Favourite – Worms W&D

Worms W&D represents Jack’s favourite turn-based game. The franchise dates back to the 1990s but doesn’t register immediately as turn-based strategy despite its simplistic appeal.

Turn-based games break into long-term strategy (Civilization, Endless Space requiring hours or days per session) and short-term strategy (Worms allowing complete sessions in a single night with friends). Worms sessions usually provoke laughter. The sandbox remains well-crafted despite complete wackiness and imbalance. Thematic and interesting additions keep the sandbox entertaining.

No competitive scene exists where players complain about weapon balance or broken mechanics. Nobody likes losing, but Worms functions as a hop-in-and-out experience ending in laughter regardless of outcome.

Worms as an Introduction to Strategy

Worms provides excellent introduction to troop management. Players name individual worms and become emotionally invested. Losing worms drastically affects gameplay difficulty and creates emotional reactions. Poor grenade tosses create overwhelmingly bad positions.

The design endears players to troops through loss. As worms die, players care more about remaining units. A child playing Worms first would find XCOM’s tactics challenging but would understand the fundamental concept: human soldiers function like worms, assault rifles replace sheep guns.

The Puzzle Element in Turn-Based Games

Worms functions as a puzzle game. Most turn-based games contain puzzle elements where players receive objectives and tools, then must determine the most effective achievement path.

Turn-based emphasizes puzzles more than RTS. Real-time games feature unit specialties and troop distinctions, but turn-based focuses on granular sandbox details. Civilization district placement becomes a puzzle. Settling on the right tile matters. Individual sandbox resources must be considered during initial city establishment to ensure districts placed 70 turns later sit on meaningful tiles with proper location priority.

Troop management becomes more critical with turns. Improper troop movement or poor strategy creates worse consequences than RTS where players can reposition or delay actions.

Roguelike and deck builders lean into the puzzle aspect with new presentation. Publishers like Hooded Horse explore this on the indie side. Drop Duchy functions as Tetris as a city builder roguelike. Against the Storm creates roguelike city building where players establish multiple settlements leaning into different fantasy races.

Turn-based tactics games like XCOM and Menace increasingly emphasize puzzle elements. The Menace demo complaint was less puzzle focus compared to other modern turn-based tactics releases. Insufficient sandbox elements where players lean into squad types, heroes, and counteraction systems. Rock-paper-scissors mechanics appeal strongly in strategy game sandboxes.

Procedural Maps and Replayability

Worms World Party featured infinite random map generation. Players could randomize maps endlessly, creating fascination with the procedural system and infinite playability. This spawned massive community level creation with ridiculous custom maps.

Procedural aspects in turn-based games create procedural missions or procedural maps. This significantly helps replayability across the genre.

History – Turn-Based Predates RTS by Nearly a Decade

Red Alert and Civilization 2 both released in 1996 – Civ 2 in April, Red Alert in August. Turn-based games predate RTS by almost a decade. Early turn-based computer games emerged in the 1970s and 1980s (Empire, Computer Bismarck) establishing templates. Civilization in 1991 became the genre’s defining moment. Master of Orion later set the 4X formula stage. Heroes of Might and Magic blended RPG with strategy.

Turn-based gaming traces lineage directly to board games rather than evolving from video game innovation. The format predates real-time strategy significantly.

Why Turn-Based Has Outlasted RTS

RTS enjoyed a golden age from 1995-2007 (roughly 12 years). Command and Conquer launched in 1995. Dune 2 appeared in 1992. The genre peaked and declined after 2007. AAA and AA RTS games rarely appear anymore. Tempest Rising represents a recent release that could have been another Command and Conquer title.

Turn-based maintains longevity. Developers continue investing time, effort, care, and attention into great turn-based games. Civilization 7 released recently. Command and Conquer died in 2011 when Generals 2 was cancelled. Starcraft and Warcraft stopped producing new RTS titles. Turn-based has effectively replaced RTS in 2026 as the strategy genre receiving active development.

Several factors explain turn-based survival:

Development side: Turn-based sandboxes are easier to design and develop. RTS games require dozens of additional economy resources. Developers constantly evaluate whether their RTS could function as turn-based instead. Stronghold deliberately chose RTS over turn-based despite potential for either format. Mount and Blade essentially functions as RTS with a world clock background but could have been turn-based.

Turn-based development costs less and operates more efficiently. The format provides better accessibility for casual audiences. Total War games feature manageable unit counts on screen at once. Players fight limited enemy groups from AI or other players. Managing a handful of cities or structures at a time avoids resource overload.

Modern accessibility: Powerful engines like Unreal Engine 5 are completely free to developers until reaching revenue milestones. Unreal doesn’t charge 5% until developers hit one million dollars in revenue. This accessibility for game designers and developers coincides with games breaking historic records from passion projects.

Narrative platform: Turn-based games tell strategy narratives better than real-time as a platform. This makes turn-based more accessible for teams wanting to create strategy games. Developers have their own stories to tell and sandboxes to present.

Innovation appears through roguelikes in indie development and puzzle mechanics additions or deck builder integration. Developers explore the threshold between turn-based RPGs and RPG strategy games. These allow choices between turns and pop-up events like Stellaris anomalies or Endless Legend mechanics. Fantasy turn-based strategy RPGs like Spell Force, Heroes of Might and Magic, and Endless Legend proliferate. These games are definitely strategy with hints of RPG elements rather than turn-based isometric RPGs like Baldur’s Gate.

Turn-based games also create perfect examples of complexity. The format encourages mastery through learning systems, refining strategies, experimenting with builds, and replaying scenarios to improve. Turn-based scratches the same itch as solving puzzles or perfecting a craft. Most turn-based games are incredibly varied.

Turn-Based Creates Great Stories

Turn-based pacing allows time to feel characters and create memorable moments. Players remember the soldier who survived against all odds. Players remember the empire built from nothing. Players remember the clutch decision that saved the run. RTS demands fast thinking and quick reflexes in the moment. Turn-based allows taking time to zoom out and consider the bigger picture.

If You Lose in Turn-Based, It’s Your Fault

Turn-based removes excuses for poor performance. Players can’t blame lag, reflexes, or insufficient mouse speed. Players had unlimited time to consider moves before making them. Losses fall entirely on the player’s shoulders. This accountability distinguishes turn-based from RTS where performance can be blamed on external factors.

The Total War Debate – Turn-Based or RTS?

Total War sparked debate between Al and Nuno in an earlier episode. The question remains unresolved over 73+ episodes: Is Total War turn-based or RTS?

One school considers Total War turn-based because the campaign operates turn-based. The alternative school considers Total War real-time because battles operate real-time and players can engage standalone battles without campaign involvement.

Jack’s turn-based argument: Total War is turn-based because the core progression relies on turn-based mechanics. Even with real-time battles, players never have to interact with those to progress in the base game save file. Resource compilation, economy building, and troop production all operate turn-based. This parallels games that are real-time until battle engagement when they become turn-based – those games are real-time with turn-based combat specification.

XCOM comparison: XCOM has base building that isn’t tactical. Base building doesn’t provide per-battle bonuses. It’s a strategic aspect affecting long-term inventory and resource management. It plans out and affects every battle for the rest of the game depending on construction choices. XCOM is strategy by definition because it relies on strategy mechanics to access the tactics portion. Total War is turn-based but also real-time at certain mechanics.

Sid’s RTS argument: Total War is real-time all day long. The battles matter most. Creative Assembly’s promotional materials and trailers never show map gameplay. They always show battles. Someone unfamiliar with the game would think it’s another real-time strategy battle war game based on marketing. The franchise markets itself as RTS.

Al’s turn-based position: Al sides with Jack on turn-based classification while acknowledging Sid makes a valid point about marketing focus.

Total War Warhammer 40K Speculation

The debate will intensify with Total War Warhammer 40K. Space Marine combat will be real-time. However, space combat (speculated but not confirmed) would be turn-based. Economy, world progression, and travelling between star systems would operate turn-based. Approximately 90% of gameplay would be turn-based despite real-time ground combat. Sid would still declare it RTS based on Space Marine combat even though Creative Assembly might not show space combat for two years of marketing.

The next Total War releases are Warhammer 40K followed by Medieval 3. The debate will persist with both titles.

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Episode Verdict

Episode 73 provides comprehensive examination of turn-based strategy’s enduring appeal through the lens of TurnBasedThursdayFest. The hosts successfully identify why “just one more turn” remains gaming’s most addictive phrase across multiple decades and franchise iterations. Sid’s revelation of 3,000+ hours in Football Manager 2020 demonstrates the format’s capacity to hook players through unlimited thinking time and pressure-free decision-making that rewards strategic planning over reflexive execution.

Jack’s selection of Worms W&D as his favourite turn-based game initially surprises but reveals crucial insights about the format’s accessibility spectrum. Turn-based encompasses both long-term empire management requiring multi-day commitments and short-term puzzle experiences completable in single-night sessions. This flexibility explains the format’s broad appeal and persistent development support despite RTS’s decline from its 1995-2007 golden age into niche irrelevance.

The discussion valuably distinguishes turn-based as an umbrella term spanning 4X, grand strategy, tactics, and RPG rather than a discrete subgenre. The format predates RTS by nearly a decade, tracing lineage to 1970s board game adaptations. Modern development realities favour turn-based creation: cheaper production costs, easier sandbox design, better accessibility for casual audiences, superior narrative platform capabilities, and democratized access to powerful engines like Unreal Engine 5.

The puzzle element emerges as fundamental to turn-based design rather than incidental. Civilization’s district placement functions as a 70-turn planning puzzle where initial decisions affect late-game viability. This intrinsic puzzle nature has fuelled the roguelike deck builder surge with Slay the Spire 2 serving as the genre blueprint. Turn-based removes excuses for poor performance because losses fall entirely on player decisions made with unlimited consideration time rather than on reflexes, lag, or execution speed.

The Total War classification debate perfectly encapsulates the episode’s central tension. Jack and Al argue turn-based because campaign mechanics (resource management, economy building, troop production) define core progression loops. Sid controversially declares it RTS because battles dominate Creative Assembly’s marketing and represent player-facing content. The debate reveals genuine ambiguity in hybrid design rather than clear-cut categorization failure.

For players exploring turn-based strategy’s appeal, developers evaluating viable development targets, or strategy gaming enthusiasts debating genre boundaries, this episode provides essential framework distinguishing turn-based’s fundamental characteristics from surface-level mechanical choices.

Next Episode: The Innovation Problem in Strategy Games | Dr. Ben Angell Returns